Comments on: The Difference Between Coach K and Roy

By: Amogh

Amogh — Sat, 26 Jun 2010 19:42:43 +0000

BigJohn, I find it hilarious that you visited our site, read our article, and spent at least ten minutes writing a 535 word paragraph in response to a post that was written over six months ago.

But that’s ok. You always have 82-50 to think about. Thanks for visiting!

By: BigJohn

BigJohn — Sat, 26 Jun 2010 05:15:05 +0000

What a crock of crap. You “Crazies” have some mighty short memories. First, “What would happen if Coach K had pulled this?” Nothing b/c it would never happen. HOGWASH!! IT HAS HAPPENED!! But the “nothing” part is correct. The full correct answer of course is that “nothing would happen b/c K would manipulate the media with intimidation & threats to make sure no one would dare print word one!” Of course, I’m referring to the incident when Scott Williams (yes, Roy’s son) yelled down to Coach K as he was trotting to the locker room at halftime that he “had (ACC Official Larry) Rose in his pocket!” Coach K immediately had security EJECT Williams from the game. Where was the NATIONAL MEDIA on that one? Oh that’s right, Fayetteville’s Weirder wasn’t sending out emails to ESPN, SI & the other “big boys” to make sure they checked out his blog! Truly, Duke & Coach K aren’t despised b/c OF THEIR SUCCESS. Remember, BOTH were the media darlings for it. Both saw their admiration turn around b/c of how they handled their success with such classless arrogance. Also, lost in the facts of this unsigned “Crazies crap” piece is that the guy was NOT a “Presbyterian Fan”. He was a DUKE FAN who happened to be a student at Presbyterian. Also, he DID NOT produce a ticket for his seat, but rather one for an upper level seat. Also, the video clearly shows that the Duke fan & Roy had a rather lengthy & heated exchange! Remember, the Duke fan CLAIMS that he only said “Don’t miss it, Deon!”, but the video evidence clearly suggests that he said MORE! Think logically people, would Roy REALLY have a fan tossed IF that’s all that was said? No way. Finally, this caught fire for 2 reasons. 1) Roy was naive to think that he was being “classy” when he refused to share the specifics of the exchange & thought that it would die there, NOT KNOWING that Deon & Larry Drew would later provide soundbites BRAGGING that their coach had the “pull” to get someone ejected (You Dukies want a story, investigate how those 2 got into UNC w/out functioning brains). And, 2) Weirderer who wrote the official AP story of the game (which was actually quite tame on the incident) went into OVERDRIVE with his blog slamming Roy & other members of the MEDIA for not POUNCING on him. He PERSONALLY contacted the aforementioned “big boys” to make sure HE got credited nationally for “breaking” the “Roy has fan ejected” scoop, & when Roy offered finally offered an explanation 2 days later at his weekly press conference, Weirderer didn’t even bother to attend. Yet when he saw some of “Roy’s explanation” in the media, he went on the attack AGAIN telling others in the media to “NOT BELIEVE IN ROY!” And THAT is about as UNPROFESSIONAL as it gets! There IS a big difference between Roy & K in terms of who has more class. But the biggest difference between the 2 is in “understanding how to manipulate the media”!!

By: Meredith

Meredith — Wed, 23 Dec 2009 01:36:57 +0000

Raymond: “The big difference to me is each coach’s goals for his players. While both put winning #1, Coach K, the program and the fans often refuse to support his players if they give him anything less than 4 years (see: Elton Brand). Coach K would not comment on Henderson leaving early last year when his personal and professional accomplishments should be celebrated.”

What? Where are you getting that from? Check it: “Gerald is an impressive young man on and off the court,” said Duke head coach Mike Krzyzewski. “We had great conversations about his NBA prospects and we are 100 percent behind his decision. Gerald is coming off a great season and he has an extremely bright future as a professional. We are ready to help him in any and every way during this process.” http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=3727878

Coach K “refusing to support” any of his players is a new one on me. The guy is known for his loyalty.

By: Jake

Jake — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 18:23:57 +0000

Raymond,

It’s great to see Roy make that gesture. Indeed, both of our programs come together in tragic times like this and after Eve’s death. I know Andre appreciated that, as did all Duke fans.

By: Raymond

Raymond — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 03:22:55 +0000

My point of the respect and the greatness of the rivalry is show here. While on not the same scale because we were not playing, it reminds me of the awesome act of the Duke students after the tragic murder of Eve Carson. We can hate on each other all day long, but at the end of the day this is what defines our collective greatness.

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/voices/blogpost/6627812/

By: Jake

Jake — Wed, 16 Dec 2009 21:29:59 +0000

Jeff,

Thanks for the response.

Your final paragraph on whether K receives the negative attention because of his “military” approach is interesting. I think I would say that K’s seriousness makes him seem like a jerk or a guy who can’t take a joke. He actually has an excellent sense of humor. When it comes to his team, I think he takes it personally and takes responsibility for how Duke plays and appears to the world. I don’t think we’ll have any “Late Night w/ K” type dancing and skits anytime soon—and that may be K’s mindset.

But you’re right—Duke is on TV a lot, and people get tired of seeing the same team win over and over again. I certainly understand that. Being hated comes with the territory—something I noted in the first few paragraphs of this article. I may be a little biased here, but I think the media tends to celebrate UNC’s greatness a little more than Duke’s. That’s just my opinion. Everyone knows that Dickie V loves Duke. Honestly I think he just likes whatever team is good at that moment. And for now, that will be both of our teams.

Thanks for your response, and I’m glad you enjoyed the article.

By: Jeff

Jeff — Wed, 16 Dec 2009 05:34:28 +0000

I am a UNC fan. Okay, that is out there.

While I don’t think Roy was right, I think this one is especially sweet for Duke fans and here is why:
1. Getting upset over cheering, the one thing the Crazies are most known for, is unfathomable. For the most part I actually agree.
2. The media is finally scrutinizing Roy and UNC, after years of hating on Duke. I can understand this to an extent, especially from the print media and blog media – mostly people that jump from scandal to scandal. The true basketball media has always crawled over both Duke and UNC, and that will never change because they rely on this rivalry and the collective greatness of these programs to feed the popularity of the sole sport they sell.
3. Off the Heels (pun intended) of 2 Championships and with the recruiting win in Barnes, Duke fans NEED a way to enjoy a UNC failure, no matter how minimal in the long run.

I am not going to get into any of the discussions of who is the better man. The reality is any reasonable fan can point to singular incidents all day long, but at the end of the day know they are doing this out of hatred (and a little bit of admiration) of their rivals greatness. This rivalry has had its cycles of greatness with each team and will continue to have them.

The one point that I don’t think many non-UNC fans realize is that Roy has always hated negative cheering at his home court. As I student, I remember countless times where Roy got on the mic to scold us when chants of minimal things like “Overrated” started in the risers. Roy always wants the complete focus to be on positive encouragement from the fans rather than attacking the other team. He has proven time and again that he will scold the UNC fan base in the Dean Dome when the focus becomes negative, so I was not at all surprised to see him do so for a fan of the opposing team directly behind the bench. Again, I don’t necessarily agree with this, and know a fan base dedicated to coordinated and overwhelming cheers probably thinks this is absurd, but I just wanted to provide a bit of perspective to again how our coaches and programs differ.

Do any Dukies out there think that the public perception of these differences actually has anything to do with the fact that the public may not like the “business approach,” “military approach,” or “authoritative approach,” or does the argument always come back to the fact that you guys were so good during a time when TV coverage of college basketball exploded so people just hate you being good? Personally I lean mostly to the first and some to the second, mostly because there are many great programs that do not have the national hatred that Duke gets, but they all get at least some hatred from greatness, it comes with the territory. You can look at UNC, KU, UCLA and UF as recent examples and throw in UK for the historical perspective. I am just curious because you all seem to have more perspective than the other Duke folks I know.

Thanks for the chance to discuss.

By: SFols

SFols — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 21:54:52 +0000

That was a great article, and all the responses were very good responses. Raymond, you are definitely one of the most rational, practical Tar Heel fans around. I’ve never been able to understand the love affair with UNC and Roy, either. It infuriates me to no end. Duke and K, on the other hand, are loathed by just about ever non-Duke college basketball fan.

By: Jake

Jake — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 18:16:59 +0000

Raymond: I agree, we can be proud of our coaches knowing that they don’t stoop to the level of Calipari to win. Rather, win and then have those wins vacated.

Dattier: Those are useful clarifications. The 1995 season was a dark period for us with K out of the coach’s seat.

JDev: I agree that the ‘perception’ of how K handles draft-ready players is used against Duke in recruiting. I think all he has to do is point to the overwhelming success of Duke guys in the pros to dispel that rumor. Just last night Dunleavy, Redick, and Boozer had fantastic games. Brand is coming off an injury and still contributed 11 and 7 to the Sixers win over the Warriors. Corey Maggette had 24 in that one as well.

If anyone wants to argue about Duke not performing in the NBA, they’re living under a rock. Regardless of how K guides his players, a good deal of them end up making the very difficult transition to the league, and becoming stars or solid contributors.

Thanks for all the feedback on this article, everyone.

By: JDev

JDev — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 14:48:29 +0000

Good posts Raymond, and I really enjoyed the article Jake. To speak to Raymond’s point about the perception of K’s reluctance to encourage or support draft early-entry, it is just that, a perception. There isn’t anything actually substantial to back up that claim. But alas, as Ray also points out, perceptions can be damning regardless of accuracy. In some camps that is a generally held opinion of K, with a lot of people believing it for no other reason than they want to, consciously or unconsciously. That sort of thing is used against K and Duke when recruiting, make no mistake. When you look at the raw data, which Jake has provided, Duke clearly puts guys in the league at a rate on par with or above every single other team in the country. Yet they still must battle that perception.
Also, I can understand, to an extent, the backlash (or what is left of it after 14+ years) in regards to the 1994-1995 season. But, I always boil it down to the simplest terms. K was ill, and people who argue otherwise are just delusional. But more to the point, K did not actually coach those games, therefore, why should he be assigned the wins or the losses that occurred during that time? Again, he was on a sick leave from the team, and he was not coaching. He should get no credit from what transpired at that time, regardless of how positive or negative said credit is.
Again, good posts by all, and I enjoyed reading them.